[middtube envs0350a-f08 mp3:ISanders_ADubenetsky100708]

Alice Dubenetsky

10/07/08

Dan Sargent Rd., South Starksboro

Interviewed by Ian Sanders-Fleming

 

            I actually didn’t choose Alice for any particular reason.  She was one of a choice of people we were given going to South Starksboro.  In reality I would have preferred someone not on the Select Board so as to experience someone more removed from town politics, but she had some great insights into town initiatives and changes and how politics are viewed and participated in.

            We interviewed in her living room in her house, an old renovated farmhouse.  They have done an amazing job renovating that house, it is clean and well furnished, the old beams are artfully exposed, there is a great large fireplace on one end, attended on one side by a plasma TV.  It has the air of a cute old farmhouse that has fallen into the hands of pretty well off people.

            One constant source of interference is the ipod itself- it clicks and whirrs a little now and then- I’m not sure how much of a problem this was, but I’d like to try a new device.  Alice’s dog, Jet, was all over the place now and then, but you can’t here him; his disturbance comes from our chidings.

            The beginning was like last time- informal and quick, so I had to turn on the recorder in the middle of a sentence (my sentence, luckily).  I was perfectly comfortable this interview, and I think I put Alice at ease.  However, I was so willing to prompt her and give my own inputs that I think I overload the interview with my steering the conversation too much.  Longer silences will draw out better answers, perhaps- I need to try either way.  It will take a lot to edit me out!  Some prompts worked really well, however- if I suggest the right thing at the right time it brought out a story, etc.  I need to learn the balance between input and just letting them speak.

            I took a photograph of Alice outside her house, but because I was pressed for time, I couldn’t really record where she lived.  I would have taken a photo of her and her horses, given the chance.  I left my camera chord there; perhaps I’ll get more pictures when I go back.

            Interviewing Alice did not uncover a mine of childhood Starksboro stories- she grew up in Connecticut.  The perspective she gave was all-inclusive, someone who values the town and is a part of it now, but well aware that people will move in from outside, and has accepted it.  As head of the town Select Board, she offers very realistic and pragmatic opinions on town growth, and how it can be steered in a positive way.  Later in the interview, we really get into some good discussions about town politics and ‘neighborhood politics’ around land.  I left the interview with a better appreciation of ‘new’ Starksboroians, and curious as to how she is seen by others in the town.

 

1:44 the first question- Alice’s childhood- a very quick synopsis of life

3:10 the first views of the house- a piece o’ junk!  Making it into a home

3:50 Alice’s passion- horses

4:45 The first social circles- mothers of children in school

5:19 Bloody Mary Story of how Alice became a select board member!

6:40 Alice’s journalism- what she’s looking for in Vermont news about people- I kind of run over her a little much- maybe suppressing good answers.

8:20 Everyone knows everyone in Vermont- being on radio- Alice talks about how American community lives on in Vermont towns.  I say stupid stuff

10:13 Alice’s daughter Katie- what she plans to do after leaving home?  Deciding NOT to leave Vermont- be a big fish in a small pond.

12:15 What kids leaving does to town life—Alice and the other moms having a blast!

13:30—Doggy attack interruption.  You can’t actually here him, but we all fuss.

14:24  Life as a commuter- Dan (Husband) working in Burlington—how it effects life in Starksboro

15:14- what Dan is involved in at Starksboro

16:28- working in the town, or lack of it- what it means for people’s view of the  town, participation, etc…  I TALK to much- silence might draw more out!

It is worth it to stay in Starksboro

17:10  How Alice ended up in Starksboro in particular- not a choice, just what was available and cheap

18:29- Issues of property values

19:53 A nice story about Alice and Dan’s travels before Vermont- the con man in Maine

20:47 How Vermont worked out, and the questioning along the way

21:03 How the town helped Alice and Dan moving in and renovating the house- the help of neighbors made it possible for them.  I should have asked about the first mud season!

22:48 Being accepted into the neighborhood- Dan the Radio guy

23:00 First feeling a part of the town- town meeting—good reflections on town politics

24:05 Alice stepping down voluntarily- wanting to allow other influence control town projects.  A lack of interest?  Why don’t people step forward?

25:25 One of the most contentious and full meetings ever- Alice’s first meeting impression!  Over snow mobileing

27:10 Another great town meeting push- no shooting in backyards- personal politics in town—what it makes Alice choose as far as representing opinions

28:04 Alice’s take on the sidewalk initiative—who’s for, who’s against, who’d have to pull the weight

29:15 Vermont growth- what it will mean for Starksboro—Alice does NOT think it’s a bad thing- but where should it happen?  At least it should be clustered somewhere, she says

30:35 New people coming in- how it is often not a choice for older families, how criticizing them is ridiculous.  Development is going to happen- fights will occur over the farmland in the hamlet.

32:48 Conservation initiatives in Starksboro that work- the farm/gravelpit/sportsfield deal.

34:30  Even if farms are conserved, if they can’t make it, they’re useful- is conserving farms actually at all considered valuable- Alice certainly doesn’t seem nostalgic for working farms.

36:11 The old roads issue- rights of way no longer even visible- old town roads, ancient roads- issues in real estate transfers, issue of mapping the roads, getting rid of old ones, while maintaining the rights of way.

37:00 the importance of trails to Alice and others- the trails she uses in Starksboro

39:15 Alice’s opinion on conserving farms- sometimes, conserving farmland simply fails because of lack of upkeep- financially.  She sees danger of development through purchase.  The risk- loosing land to an owner who wants to keep everyone off

40:10 Sharing land between neighbors in Starksboro- a real central part of town identity.

40:30 absent owners from other states giving land use and passage to those that live there- generous use of land from ‘foreigners’

43:32  “that’s where we have our problems, with our representatives”  –contradictions with how they represent the town.  Liberal/conservative dichotomy

44:42 The representatives, trust funds, and the reputation people have in South Starksboro

45:20 What do you see the town being like in 20 years?

Bigger, more community involved, the village being more of a central gathering space

            What it would take- fighting zoning

            A park and ride

            A bus route to Burlington and Hinesburg

47:50  Escaping 10 acre developments with planning, working with conservation, and OTHER folks- always maintaining a mix

49:00 the creeping of businesses outside of metropolis towards Starksboro, Munkton, and the like- from Burlington, from Middlebury

50:15  what allowed Starksboro to build the new town center- a town architect helping out, and reducing the fees HUGELY because of keeping planning INTERNAL instead of EXTERNAL- New Haven failed because of this, while Starksboro prevailed- the importance of influence in decision making inside the town.  The risk of overplanning.

54:20 Dan and Alice working together in town meeting- cute!

55:00 Alice and Dan’s history- a really cute story about dating from the first day from of College.  Asking everyother girl to dance.

1:56 talking about con artists- how they really can bring you in.  How Dan and Alice’s con artist got busted!

 

A great first interview.  Martha has been the secretary at the Robinson School for 31 years and has lived in Starksboro for her whole life.  Amaya is her granddaughter who is in the 3rd grade at the school.  They live on the same property together and go to school together every day.  Martha was so interesting to talk to: her profound connection to the area was so clear as she told stories.  She lit up when she remembered the past, and talked about the surrounding hills and the nature path, and quickly responded that she would always be in Starksboro.

00:34 Born in Hinesburg/Childhood/self-sufficient

2:41 Never wanted to leave

2:52 worked in Burlington

3:01 Farmed

3:06 Secretary at Robinson

4:30 Farm/Future of farm

5:23-6:22 Commenting on Robinson School “It’s different everyday…”

6:23-8:05 Amaya 3rd Grade

8:24 Robinson to Mt. Abe–> easy transition

8:52 Bristol is a strong community

9:15 We all belong

9:55 Bristol is the main hub…more opportunities

10:27 Ease zoning rights…would allow people to move back to Starksboro

11:40 Young and the Old

12:30 New families

13:30 Amaya and her favorite things to do afterschool

15:22 Martha and Amaya come to school together each day

Pt. 2

00:39 Typical Monday for Amaya at Robinson School

2:27 School wide Food Shelf Project

3:30 the “Golden Sneaker” project

4:50 Martha describes Food Shelf project

6:00 back to school day…Amaya

9:55 Structure of the school

11:14 Teachers at Starksboro

12:54 “Great place to raise kids here in Starksboro.”

13:20 Field Day

14:45 Sledding out back…”not many schools can do that”

15:40 Field Trips

18:00 cross country skiing–no trails, just go

19:30 Louis Creek

19:40 After School Program: RASY–Robinson After School Youth

22:28 Walk path carved by locals…favorite place

26:00 Neighbor organic farmer

26:46 Growing up self-sufficient

31:30 View of Middlebury

Overall, a pretty good interview.  After listening to the recording, I need to try and listen attentively without using my voice because I think it interrupts the interviewee.  I will try to become more comfortable with pauses in my next interview.

[middtube nzucker mp3: maryhines_nathanzucker_10.07]

For my first interview, I talked with Mary Hines, former principal and teacher at Robinson Elementary School in Starksboro. Hines spent 27 years at the district, and she commented extensively on the myriad experiences that constituted her time as an administrator in the Starksboro schools. However, the theme which recurred throughout the interview was that of community. In the life of this principal, the school and the town were not two separate entities; neither were her home and her job. Everything was strongly integrated under the umbrella of community involvement, and this is the main reason why Hines’ tenure as principal was highly effective.

Log:

1:00–Hines spoke of her father’s career as a teacher and an administrator in Vermont. This was one of her primary motivations for becoming involved in education, and she always identified strongly with school. She felt that her family influenced her from a young age; she grew up to love school and wanted to be involved.

7:00–After teaching for 12 years in Robinson, Hines reported that the move to administration wasn’t difficult. She had earned her Masters and administrative degree at the University of Vermont, and she felt ready to become a leader in the district. “I knew the community. It was a good move for me, and I think it was a good move for the school.”

8:50–Hines commented extensively on her desire to stay involved as principal. She was never the bureaucratic administrator that sits behind the desk answering the telephone; instead, Hines remained involved with the students, having lunch with kids, participating in bus and recess duty. This hands-on approach was one characteristic of her tenure at Robinson.

13:37–At this point I asked Hines about the changes she had seen in the classroom during her time as a teacher and administrator. The discussion soon turned to technology and the influence the Internet age had had in the system. Hines saw this as largely a positive difference, although she admitted that students must learn to use technology responsibly. “It used to be there was one computer in every classroom. The tech lab didn’t come here until three or four years ago.”

19:00–Hines and I continued our discussion about the ways in which schools had evolved during her career. The emphasis on special education and individual needs was one aspect we both highlighted, and she remarked that Starksboro had begun to employ special educators on a full-time basis to deal with the increased importance of this area. She highlighted the role of the community in supporting children with special needs, and the fact that parents were involved. “We have a very supportive community; the school is the center of the community.”

26:10–At this point the interview turned to Hines’ personal life in Starksboro. When she mentioned that she had two sons, I asked her if she worried about raising them to live in another place. Fortunately, she never doubted that her children would venture too far from home; she said she expected them to remain in Vermont. “They grew up in the country,” she explained.

33:20–After retiring from the position as principal, Hines indicated that she had begun a new career in the tourist industry. She and her husband rent out cottages in Grand Isle, VT to people looking to spend a week or month on the shoreline of Lake Champlain. The experience, in her view, had exposed her to many new people from around the country. Hines also said how surprised she was that so many people love to come to Vermont;we both agreed that it was one of the most popular states in the country.

40:20–The last main thing Hines discussed was Town Meeting, a tradition here in Vermont. She remarked that she had only missed one such gathering in the past 35 years, and that was because she was vacationing in the Caribbean. As principal, she felt she had to attend town meeting, showing her belief in the power of community. This was a thread that ran from the start to the end of the interview.

[middtube envs0350a-f08 mp3: leastman_jcooper_100708]

Luke Eastman

Interview with Jane Cooper

10-7-2008

1113 Jerusalem Road, Bristol VT 05443

0:00 – 1:25 Introduction; born in Eerie, PA

1:25 – 3:25 How she got to Vermont; liked independent attitude of VT, self-sufficiency

3:30 – 10:35 Describing 10 years in trailer, “it was appalling,” “it was disgusting,” “it was good for my kids, they learned to do with less,” ran out of water, cost-effective measures, described “Norman Rockwell childhood” for her kids, described how distance meant not as much as social interaction,

10:35 – 11:30 Story about power, phones going out, walking with young son in winter

11:30 – 14:20 Living in current house; “you have to really work hard at doing stuff that you don’t have to do elsewhere (talking about VT),” “having right priorities,” “I don’t have to impress anybody up here,” kids picking berries after reading children’s books about it

14:30 – 15:05 Describes neighbors and interactions

15:25 – 19:10 She “ABSOLUTELY” feels a disconnect with the town of Starksboro, kind of feels like an outsider, doesn’t feel much of a strong connection to the Jerusalem schoolhouse, talks about a meet-your-neighbor get-together “thinks it’s very cool that people are making that kind of effort”; “I don’t know everybody, but everybody knows who I am,” never goes to the town center,

19:15 – 21:57 “I’d rather be Jerusalem than South Starksboro”

21:55 – 24:00 Story about someone addressed her house “side of Stark mountain” ‘ another story about a man trying to sell the Burlington Free Press upset about her not having an actual address

24:15 – 26:00 How she feels separate from town, “I REALLY WISH WE WERE OUR OWN SEPARATE TOWN ACTUALLY.”

26:10 – 28:00 Describing trifles with old grumpy German lady, story about dog eating deer

28:15 – 31:50 Describing nice neighbors, “you want a healthy, safe place for your kids” “I don’t know if we even know where our house keys are,” “it’s just a lot of belief in community up here,”

32:00 – 33:50 Bad sides of living here – weather (it’s been 30 below), no cell service, fear of having a health emergency

35:30 – 40:15 Her kids experiences during schools, thought that Robinson had ups and downs, “They probably couldn’t read if I hadn’t done that (read at home with them),” “a real mixed bag,” was a teacher at Mt. Abe, describes kids who couldn’t read three letter words

40:15 – 42:30 Story about kids hanging out with different age groups, sense of community, “very unique growing up in a place like this”

42:28 – 43:45 Story about a girl helping her son with reading some days on the school bus (Very heartwarming),

43:50 – 48:15 Kids futures and Starksboro, she doesn’t want her kids back in Starksboro, but close enough in VT, toughness of job prospects, talking about the “geniusness” of her son,

48:15 – 50:15 Has a feeling that tough environmental laws might be keeping business out, a little upset about petition to shut down Vermont Yankee, thinks it would force IBM out, good story on that,

50:15 – 52:00 “For some of us we get the impression that they’re trying to make Vermont into a place just for affluent people,” “I just worry about the economic conditions”

52:10 – 56:43 Talking about commuters, how a gas tax in VT wouldn’t work, talks about how public transportation is bad, how school activity bus used to not come to South Starksboro, “It’s like for some kids, that are economically deprived up here, they don’t have some opportunities that they should have.” ACTR doesn’t come up there. “I wish town was a little more affordable as far as utilities go.” “It’s really a good place to live.”