<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Roberts Was Right, Institutionally Speaking</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/2012/06/29/roberts-was-right-institutionally-speaking/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/2012/06/29/roberts-was-right-institutionally-speaking/</link>
	<description>A NonPartisan Analysis of Presidential Politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:45:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew Dickinson</title>
		<link>http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/2012/06/29/roberts-was-right-institutionally-speaking/comment-page-1/#comment-28065</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Dickinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2012 18:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/?p=12861#comment-28065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dale,

Interestingly, I think Roberts would agree, which is why he based his decision on what he thought was the more narrow reading of the taxing power, as opposed to a further expansion of the interstate commerce clause.  It seems to me that the dissent you cite is really better argued against an expansive interpretation of the interstate commerce clause, and the Medicaid expansion.  Kennedy&#039;s argument against the tax portion of Robert&#039;s decision is really pretty simple:  it&#039;s not a tax. It&#039;s a penalty.  I think that has less to do with arguments regarding structural safeguards on liberty, and more to do with how to define a tax.  Of course, a broad reading of what constitutes a tax could be viewed as an erosion  of liberty, but the cure to me seems not to lie in structural safeguards, but in a more narrow reading of what we mean by a tax.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dale,</p>
<p>Interestingly, I think Roberts would agree, which is why he based his decision on what he thought was the more narrow reading of the taxing power, as opposed to a further expansion of the interstate commerce clause.  It seems to me that the dissent you cite is really better argued against an expansive interpretation of the interstate commerce clause, and the Medicaid expansion.  Kennedy&#8217;s argument against the tax portion of Robert&#8217;s decision is really pretty simple:  it&#8217;s not a tax. It&#8217;s a penalty.  I think that has less to do with arguments regarding structural safeguards on liberty, and more to do with how to define a tax.  Of course, a broad reading of what constitutes a tax could be viewed as an erosion  of liberty, but the cure to me seems not to lie in structural safeguards, but in a more narrow reading of what we mean by a tax.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dale Steinacker</title>
		<link>http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/2012/06/29/roberts-was-right-institutionally-speaking/comment-page-1/#comment-28058</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Steinacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/?p=12861#comment-28058</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt, Although I understand the argument about the taxing provision, I disagree that it is an effective means of stopping politicians. They are expert at lying about taxes. For example, we have the selling of social security as paid for old age annuity when it was merely a tax transfer.
 
  I think the conclusion of the dissent by Kennedy, Scalia, Thomas and Alito says it best:
 
  See page 191 of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the decision&lt;/a&gt;
  
 &lt;i&gt;The Constitution, though it dates from the founding ofthe Republic, has powerful meaning and vital relevanceto our own times. The constitutional protections that this case involves are protections of structure. Structural protections-notably, the restraints imposed by federalismand separation of powers-are less romantic and have less obvious a connection to personal freedom than the provisions of the Bill of Rights or the Civil War Amendments. Hence they tend to be undervalued or even forgotten by our citizens. It should be the responsibility of the Court toteach otherwise, to remind our people that the Framers considered structural protections of freedom the most im- portant ones, for which reason they alone were embod-ied in the original Constitution and not left to lateramendment. The fragmentation of power produced by thestructure of our Government is central to liberty, and when we destroy it, we place liberty at peril. Today’sdecision should have vindicated, should have taught, thistruth; instead, our judgment today has disregarded it.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, Although I understand the argument about the taxing provision, I disagree that it is an effective means of stopping politicians. They are expert at lying about taxes. For example, we have the selling of social security as paid for old age annuity when it was merely a tax transfer.</p>
<p>  I think the conclusion of the dissent by Kennedy, Scalia, Thomas and Alito says it best:</p>
<p>  See page 191 of <a href="http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf" rel="nofollow">the decision</a></p>
<p> <i>The Constitution, though it dates from the founding ofthe Republic, has powerful meaning and vital relevanceto our own times. The constitutional protections that this case involves are protections of structure. Structural protections-notably, the restraints imposed by federalismand separation of powers-are less romantic and have less obvious a connection to personal freedom than the provisions of the Bill of Rights or the Civil War Amendments. Hence they tend to be undervalued or even forgotten by our citizens. It should be the responsibility of the Court toteach otherwise, to remind our people that the Framers considered structural protections of freedom the most im- portant ones, for which reason they alone were embod-ied in the original Constitution and not left to lateramendment. The fragmentation of power produced by thestructure of our Government is central to liberty, and when we destroy it, we place liberty at peril. Today’sdecision should have vindicated, should have taught, thistruth; instead, our judgment today has disregarded it.</i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew Dickinson</title>
		<link>http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/2012/06/29/roberts-was-right-institutionally-speaking/comment-page-1/#comment-28039</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Dickinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/?p=12861#comment-28039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dale - I think the biggest limit on the taxing power is political - the fear of a public backlash against anyone who raises taxes.  It&#039;s the reason why the President is adamant that despite the Roberts ruling, the penalty is not a tax.   He doesn&#039;t want Republicans charging him with raising taxes to enact health care reform.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dale &#8211; I think the biggest limit on the taxing power is political &#8211; the fear of a public backlash against anyone who raises taxes.  It&#8217;s the reason why the President is adamant that despite the Roberts ruling, the penalty is not a tax.   He doesn&#8217;t want Republicans charging him with raising taxes to enact health care reform.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dale Steinacker</title>
		<link>http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/2012/06/29/roberts-was-right-institutionally-speaking/comment-page-1/#comment-28038</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Steinacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2012 16:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/?p=12861#comment-28038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree there are no limits under the taxing authority. It would be a major problem if it stood by itself. But since the taxing authority is part of the Constitution, why not use the limits to national power in the rest of the Constitution as limits to the taxing authority?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree there are no limits under the taxing authority. It would be a major problem if it stood by itself. But since the taxing authority is part of the Constitution, why not use the limits to national power in the rest of the Constitution as limits to the taxing authority?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Louis Tiemann</title>
		<link>http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/2012/06/29/roberts-was-right-institutionally-speaking/comment-page-1/#comment-28029</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Tiemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 19:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sites.middlebury.edu/presidentialpower/?p=12861#comment-28029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Roberts&#039;s vote personally came as quite a shock. I had expected that whichever way Kennedy voted, Roberts would follow. There are actually some clues in the slip opinion that Roberts had initially cast hit lot with the Kennedy opinion. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/justice-roberts-change-obamacare-vote-minute/story?id=16673072#.T-zefLjDVoY

His tax-for-constitutional-purposes-penalty-for-AIA-purposes reasoning was also a huge incoherent mess in my opinion; it appears he wanted to uphold Obamacare even if he had to pull out a flimsy and unprecedented rationale, which nobody took seriously from the outset in the district courts, to justify it. 

I obviously don&#039;t have an answer, but I wonder 50 years from now whether Roberts&#039;s rather surprising opinion will be remembered as having &#039;saved&#039; the Court&#039;s institutional reputation or opened a Pandora&#039;s Tax Box. Roberts might have stealthily shut the door on further expansion of the Commerce Clause power (it was quite entertaining to see Ginsburg call him out on it in her opinion), but he waded right into the muddled waters of the tax power. 

The problem is that there really is no judicially manageable standard to determine when a tax becomes a penalty (5%, 10%, 50%, 99.99%?, e.g. cigarette taxes). All taxes inherently have some regulatory effect. So although Roberts argues that Congress has a diminished capacity to compel certain activity from citizens, that contention wholly depends on future courts striking down punitive taxes according to an arbitrary judicial standard. See the different results in Bailey v. Drexel Furniture Co. and United States v. Kahriger.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roberts&#8217;s vote personally came as quite a shock. I had expected that whichever way Kennedy voted, Roberts would follow. There are actually some clues in the slip opinion that Roberts had initially cast hit lot with the Kennedy opinion. <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/justice-roberts-change-obamacare-vote-minute/story?id=16673072#.T-zefLjDVoY" rel="nofollow">http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/justice-roberts-change-obamacare-vote-minute/story?id=16673072#.T-zefLjDVoY</a></p>
<p>His tax-for-constitutional-purposes-penalty-for-AIA-purposes reasoning was also a huge incoherent mess in my opinion; it appears he wanted to uphold Obamacare even if he had to pull out a flimsy and unprecedented rationale, which nobody took seriously from the outset in the district courts, to justify it. </p>
<p>I obviously don&#8217;t have an answer, but I wonder 50 years from now whether Roberts&#8217;s rather surprising opinion will be remembered as having &#8216;saved&#8217; the Court&#8217;s institutional reputation or opened a Pandora&#8217;s Tax Box. Roberts might have stealthily shut the door on further expansion of the Commerce Clause power (it was quite entertaining to see Ginsburg call him out on it in her opinion), but he waded right into the muddled waters of the tax power. </p>
<p>The problem is that there really is no judicially manageable standard to determine when a tax becomes a penalty (5%, 10%, 50%, 99.99%?, e.g. cigarette taxes). All taxes inherently have some regulatory effect. So although Roberts argues that Congress has a diminished capacity to compel certain activity from citizens, that contention wholly depends on future courts striking down punitive taxes according to an arbitrary judicial standard. See the different results in Bailey v. Drexel Furniture Co. and United States v. Kahriger.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
